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Grooming a badly matted collie Log Out | Topics | Search
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Groomers BBS » Breed Styles and Grooming Techniques » NORTHERN & OTHER DOUBLE COATED BREEDS » Grooming a badly matted collie « Previous Next »

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cheryl
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Username: cheryl

Post Number: 144
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 24.151.49.2
Posted on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 7:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Waggindog, Im in the beautiful Naugatuck Valley, Shelton. Half way between Bridgeport and New Haven. Are we close ?

I groomed a severely matted Collie last night and ended up doing the nails/pads after the bath and it was kind-of a pain. The pad hairs were wet and hard to cut.

This dog was such a mess. I'll post a picture below. Is it possible this dog got in this condition in 9 months ? They said they had him shaved October 2002.
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cheryl
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Username: cheryl

Post Number: 145
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 24.151.49.2
Posted on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 7:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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rev
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Username: rev

Post Number: 5944
Registered: 1-1999
Posted From: 205.188.209.135
Posted on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 9:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you are hand drying, be sure to use the HV dryer on the pads, so the hair is pretty well dry. Then if you put the dog on a towel for a bit, you should be able to shave out the pads pretty easily.

As for his coat, it is possible, though I'd have to see/feel the coat in person to tell. Some collie coats are very incorrect, too soft, and some collie lines have very big dense coats. However, he really doesn't look all that bad--a TBB and a HV dryer should do the trick pretty readily, I'd think. If he were to be shaved I'd do the bath/blowdry first to make it super easy--or try the wet-clipping that folks are talking about!
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cheryl
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Username: cheryl

Post Number: 146
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 24.151.49.2
Posted on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 9:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Rev I can't tell you how bad this dog was matted. It was a first for me, and I groomed a 10 year old OE that was NEVER groomed and he was no way near this bad. Poor Comet couldn't even walk, and his ear and chest mats were one big mat. He had sticks and cedar mulch in there too. I had to shave him down with a 7 skip. I hope in 6 weeks I can use a #3 to maintain the coat. Im going to print out the before/after pics and have them on hand for clients who want to see what shaving does to the texture of a coat. This was like cotton candy. I don't think this poor dog can ever have a full coat.

Maybe a more seasoned groomer could of done something else with this coat, but I was having a hard time even shaving it. I had to take a #10 blade to the whole underside and the chest/ear mats.

Look how tired this poor baby was.
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rev
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Username: rev

Post Number: 5948
Registered: 1-1999
Posted From: 64.12.97.9
Posted on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 2:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's one I never would have even tried to clip without conditioning and bathing first. Even 2-3 hours with the power shampooer and HV dryer if needed is SO much easier on everyone than the same time struggling on the table with brushes, clippers and comb on a coat like that. After Montana I'll take a whole lot of convincing otherwise on a collie. The bathing/drying push that dead hair out from the skin so it can brushed or clipped easily. Even the ear mats shave out easier with less irritation, with some pre-work in the tub. If he needs another bath after clipping that takes no time once he's short.

As for the dog (awww he was pooped, wasn't he? :-)) the owners might want to have a full thyroid panel done. That coat texture is often a sign, and he looks overweight. He also might benefit from some Omega-3 oils in his diet, as the coat seems pretty dry. Coat comes from genetics, and from the inside.. health and nutrition. Collie coats shouldn't be like that.
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cheryl
Registered Member
Username: cheryl

Post Number: 147
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 24.151.49.2
Posted on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 2:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Im not sure what a power shampooer is. Is that similiar to a super sudser, a high force recyling unit? Does the coat being wet make the dog more uncomfortable cause of the weight?

I will suggest the Oemga-3 and the thyroid workup. I'm new at this, but I've never seen a coat like this.

Thanks.
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louie
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Username: louie

Post Number: 1106
Registered: 5-2001
Posted From: 65.129.34.190
Posted on Thursday, June 5, 2003 - 8:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

whew! what a job cheryl! I had a Collie just like that 6 months ago:-( I won't do it again...he was so heavy, I could bearly groom him in my van---just too much work just to hold the old guy up! I had to shave him with a #7 and a #10 also because of the armor of matts! My Collie was very overweight and very old and he DID have a Thyroid problem...
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ferurizonly
Registered Member
Username: ferurizonly

Post Number: 256
Registered: 10-2001
Posted From: 209.226.116.56
Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 4:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have never seen that done in person and I don't have an HV, I have a hose system that has different amounts of pressure for the bathing. So Rev what your saying is bath the dog and condition it first with all the matts, solid like that,then pressure blast it, then brush and clip?? What lengths were left on a Collie in that type of condition after that way of doing it. I can't stand shaving collies and shelties down.
Is there anywhere to see pics of before and after of the Montana collies done like that?? What shampoos and conditioners were used on the Montana Collies?

Next one that comes in I am going to "cave in" and try it. I am a die hard prep before bath girl! If it leaves more coat on them.....in the long run... I am game for anything.
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rev
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Username: rev

Post Number: 5958
Registered: 1-1999
Posted From: 205.188.209.135
Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 9:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pre-condition, power wash, power dry, trim, and brush or clip.

A power shampooer could be a Bowser Blaster and/or a recirculating washer such as Hydrosurge. We used both in Montana on each dog. The Blaster gave more pressure to break up matting, while once the tub was full the HS continued the cleaning and did wonders lifting and separating the coat. The HS also conserved on shampoo and water; with just the blaster it takes a lot of both for such dogs. They make a good team.

Our best success with the bad ones we found was using a heavy conditioner, diluted maybe 1:4 or so, soaked thoroughly in the coat for a while before bathing. We often added just a little dematting solution to this. Then we bathed with the power shampooers, using the force to dig down through the coat to the skin and the water pressure to start lifting and separating the coat. Use your other hand to work through the coat and help things along. Be patient--this can take a long time on a bad coat. Then rinse (I liked a very light vinegar rinse at that point, to cut shampoo, to reacidify the skin, and to deodorize). Condition the coat with a light conditioner with a little dematter mixed in. Rinse a little, not thoroughly. Or you could use a leave-in conditioner with a little dematter. Then start using the HV dryer, working it (with concentrator) through the coat sort of as if you were line brushing/combing. Again, be patient; "work" the coat with the air power, over every inch of skin, and you'll slowly start seeing the dead coat let go and creep out toward the tips of the hair. There will still be plenty of clumps of hair, but done correctly they won't be near the skin, and when dry can usually be brushed out quite easily and quickly.

It's a good idea on a dog like this, once dry, to shave out the matting behind the ears, the inner corners of the elbows, the abdomen and inner thighs from hock to hock, the anal area, and 3-4" of the underside of the tail, and skim part of the inner sides of the rear skirts. Do the feet. Scissor the hocks short or use a #7 blade. Clip short the hair from heel to pastern in front. Front feathers can be trimmed pretty short. That leaves virtually no matted hair. If the rear skirts are still bad, trim them shorter. Brush/comb and you're done! The MT dogs looked great!

If your goal is to shave the dog, the first steps are the same, but don't bother trying to work through all the longer parts of the coat--concentrate on the skin and everything next to it. Same with drying; work hard on getting the dead stuff pushed out from the skin all over--don't forget the tummy! Once you've done that you could cage dry if you like. Do all the obvious finish stuff above except brushing, then shave instead. The blade will zip through the coat and you're done.

The bath/dry process for the Montana rough dogs took anywhere from an hour to 3.5 hours, but that was the worst, something I hope you'll never see. Finishing was easy--trims and nails took 10 minutes or so, and amateurs mostly brushed so they took a while, but the few that groomers brushed were a zip-zip piece of cake. There were half a dozen exceptions.. dogs that had turtle-shells on their back and sides. Those needed patient thinning/splitting and dematting. I'd never before seen a turtle-shell on a collie type coat, and hope I never do again! Three of those I'd normally have shaved, but they're the only ones there that would have tempted me to.

Once this case is completely settled, I'm hoping to share pics of the whole process.
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rev
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Username: rev

Post Number: 5959
Registered: 1-1999
Posted From: 205.188.209.135
Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 9:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I missed a couple of your questions, Ferurizonly. We mostly used Best Shot because that's what we had, and it was good. Other shampoos work well too, though. In my shop I use a leave-in conditioner, NS Remo, just a capful to a half-gallon jug, with little dematter. For pre-conditioning use the cheapest heaviest stuff you can get. I saw some in the latest PetEdge Best Buys for $9 something a gallon. For dematter we used Quicker Slicker and another one I can't think of, just a tiny bit in the pre-conditioner and again in the leave-in.

I'd suggest you rig a Bowser Blaster.. the force of the plain water helps, but you need the shampoo or conditioner working through the coat at the same time. And frankly I'd never even try a dog like this without an HV dryer, so I don't know how to help you there. I guess just work it a lot with your hands and the water, and hope that's enough. :-( You could also use a very wide-toothed rake (not a mat rake) to work out some of the coat in the tub, with the shampoo/conditioner heavy on the coat. A Zoom Groom might help some too. Can't think of much else to sub for a dryer--IMO there is NO substitute for an HV dryer. To me it's as essential as clippers.
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cheryl
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Username: cheryl

Post Number: 148
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 24.151.49.2
Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gee it took me 3.5 hours to do this guy with a 2 3/4 hours shaving down before the tub. I will give this a try. What I did with both my fresh water hose and my supersuders hose was added a regular, hardware store, hose nozzle that has the head that you can turn to different settings. If you use the "stream" setting it really blasts out of there hard, so I think I can do what you are describing. I find this interchangable nozzle better for this reason.
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ferurizonly
Registered Member
Username: ferurizonly

Post Number: 257
Registered: 10-2001
Posted From: 209.226.116.95
Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 7:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks Rev, I have a blaster, I guess that is the same sort of thing but a little less in power, but I guess it would suffice. The bath hose I have has too much pressure, but I understand what you mean by the bowser shooting the soap and conditioner under.
I will try this the next time a dog comes in. The Sheltie I had come in was like you say a "turtle shell" back so he was shaved.

Thanks again I have saved this to my cpu.
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thistle
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Username: thistle

Post Number: 1155
Registered: 11-1999
Posted From: 12.155.179.24
Posted on Friday, June 6, 2003 - 8:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, no fair....we got to see the before and during shots, but not after!
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cheryl
Registered Member
Username: cheryl

Post Number: 149
Registered: 10-2002
Posted From: 24.151.49.2
Posted on Monday, June 9, 2003 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ugghhh. OK here it is. I'm not proud of it. I hate the way shaved down dogs look, especially the legs.

Comets mother said he came out much better than the last time. They must of used a #10 blade. I used a #7, so I left a little more hair.

As soon as I took this picture, Comet collapsed on the table. Took much for this poor dog.

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(Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 64.12.97.9
Posted on Monday, June 9, 2003 - 11:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shaved collies are definitely not pretty, but you did a nice job! A 10 would look pretty awful, 7 is much better. Poor guy, what a day he had! I wouldn't have put him through another minute to pretty it up. But as soon as he got a good rest, I'll bet he felt great.

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