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theladyq
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Username: theladyq

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 24.74.69.14
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 6:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A groomer completely shaved my Springer today, contrary to my explicit instructions. My dog was shaved from head-to-toe, rear-to-back, front-to-bottom. No more feathering on legs, chest or stomach. She looks like a small liver-and-white deer. Crying is pointless (although I did cry). Making sure this individual never touches my dog again has been taken care of. Receiving a credit on the grooming bill helps, but is little consolation given my dog's appearance. I swear, my dog is as upset and embarrassed by her appearance as I am.

How / what can I do to help my Springer grow her coat and feathers? And should I be concerned about any skin problems that may result from this scalping?
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magnolia
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Username: magnolia

Post Number: 1765
Registered: 7-2000
Posted From: 24.175.110.27
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 6:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry to hear about your experience.

Her hair should grow back just fine unless she has any medical problems that would result otherwise. A good premium dog food and vitamins will help. Also your dogs age will determine how fast and how well the dogs coat will come back in. I have quite a few clients with Springers that actually prefer their dogs shaved down and have had no skin problems from doing so. Just watch her for any constant chewing and licking in areas that could result in a hot spot from clipper irritation and if you're worried about the sun you can always get a spray on conditioner with sunscreen to keep on her.

I can understand you're upset about your dog being shaved down but remember your dog also picks up and feeds on your emotions and energy. If you're upset and embarrassed your dog will be too.
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lakeishapug
Registered Member
Username: lakeishapug

Post Number: 37
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 24.183.104.6
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 6:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Of course she's feeling weird, she lost all her hair. The worst thing you can do is make a big production out of it, treat her as usual. She was probably matted and had to be shaved. If not, that's a whole different story. Most groomers will do what's best for the dog, taking into consideration your request. we will still do what's best for each individual dog. We were interested in this profession because we care about dogs, not so much for people, if we loved people the way we love dogs we would all be nurses and make lots more money. What you should be concerned about is his potential skin problems that would arise if you hadn't got him to a groomer when you did. matts cause skin problems.
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ktktcat
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Username: ktktcat

Post Number: 477
Registered: 4-2001
Posted From: 207.200.116.6
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 6:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So you got a Hunting clip on you r springer, Oh yes it is a springer clip usually done in the spring for hunting so the dog doesn't get unwanted things in it's fur. and then there is the other clip but it is more of a trim up although I do charge more since there is much scissoring involved. Hey did they shave the feet clean too. Maybe she thought you said groom and she doesn't do the short back thing with the feather trim and all. I am sure it was a misunderstanding for most groomers to do something you don't want. take your dog back and talk calmly about what you wanted and see what she says.

Judy
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theladyq
Registered Member
Username: theladyq

Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 24.74.69.14
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 6:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great advice about treating her as usual. As it happens, I have her groomed regularly (every 4 weeks, and bathe her every 2 weeks), and brush her every day, so matting is not an issue. This was a complete misunderstanding with a groomer - not her regular groomer. What upsets me about this experience is that I've been taking my dog to this facility for more than 8 years - how they could screw up so badly is beyond me.
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magnolia
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Username: magnolia

Post Number: 1767
Registered: 7-2000
Posted From: 24.175.110.27
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOL well unfortunately we groomers are only human and unfortunately yes we screw up sometimes. I have a cocker spaniel that I've been doing for 3 years now every 4 weeks shaving her all over with a 4 and it makes her look "plushie". Well stupid me used a 7 on her one time thinking it was odd she was coming out a little shorter than usual and then looked at the blade..GAWD!! Well too late damage was already done. I apologized to her, blended and finished what I hadn't done yet with a 4F. She looked okay but could tell she was a bit shorter than usual, I gave her the whole groom for free. She wasn't mad at me and I admitted I screwed up and I still do her dog every 4 weeks.

If you've been going to this place for as long as you have and have been satisfied up until this incident and they did everything possible to reconcile and make you happy short of putting the hair back on your dog, I would continue to go back there, just insist your that instructions were clear to them and perhaps only take her there when the groomer that normally takes care of her is there. JMO
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doggygirl
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Username: doggygirl

Post Number: 3919
Registered: 9-2002
Posted From: 156.34.248.176
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 7:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is important to keep things in perspective. In the grand scheme of things, this is a minor deal. In life we have to deal with some serious issues so I would take a deep breath and realize-it is only hair and it will grow back. Your dog probably feels fine but is picking up on your anxiety. I would guess the groomer feels very badly about it as any of us would but move past it and realize if that was the worst thing that happened to you, you'd be doing ok:-) I would continue to go to this shop because I could bet they won't make that mistake again.
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lakeishapug
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Username: lakeishapug

Post Number: 38
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 24.183.104.6
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 7:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you can request a particular groomer to be sure your dog gets the same treatment every time.
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theladyq
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Username: theladyq

Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 24.74.69.14
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 7:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All responses to my post are too true. The irony is that the last time I had my dog groomed, I meant to call the facility to let them know that the grooming was the best I had ever seen! (Sadly, I did not make the call, which just goes to show that we all need positive reinforcement and we need people to provide that whenever possible.)

For what it's worth, it is now on record that my dog will be groomed only by my personal favorite groomer.

In the meantime, the scalping of my dog allows me to monitor her weight gain with a precision heretofore unknown :-). Her scalping makes me remember what it's like to have a hunting dog (I grew up with a hunter father and an English Setter, and it was my job to cut out the burrs in her fur in the Fall, thank you very much).

And I promise that by tomorrow, both me and my dog will look on this as the bad haircut it is - i.e., it's temporary and in the end, who cares since it will all grow back!
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pasobrio
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Username: pasobrio

Post Number: 967
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 208.190.203.70
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 7:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very good, your handling this fine!

Just adding some humor to the situation, it is silly to think that your dog is embarrassed, he is a dog not a human, dogs are not vain like we are. Besides think about it, if dogs DID get embarrassed they would be more likely to be embarrassed about a lot of other things rather than a haircut. Oh like for instance, licking himself in public, eating out of the litter box, or drinking from the toilet, sniffing the neighbor dog's butt, rolling in something nasty, well you get the picture. So often people give their dogs too much credit for human emotions, actually I think the dogs have it better, they could care less how they look, smell, or where their body functions are preformed. He is simply picking up on the way you are reacting to him.

Don't take him somewhere else if you have always been happy before, because think about it, where you have him going now you KNOW they will remember what happened everytime he comes in and never again forget lol. And PLEASE remember that they are human and mistakes happen, don't gripe too much about this, I'm sure whoever did the groom feels bad enough, and don't consider them a bad groomer, heck they could be the best one there, it was just a mistake! And afterall it is ONLY hair! I did this very same thing years ago, I was the grooming manager and taught the other groomers there. I was the one that the customers always asked for, but I got a full coated cocker, and his card looked like it said #7 strip, so that's what I did. Then noticed later that it wasn't his card afterall, it was a card from another male buff cocker. I was very upset with myself, more so than the owner was luckily, they handled it very well, they got a free groom out of it and said "Oh well, it's summer it will grow back." It made me feel good that they trusted me with this dog again, and I NEVER forgot again what kind of clip that dog was supposed to get.

(Message edited by pasobrio on July 10, 2006)
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doggygirl
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Username: doggygirl

Post Number: 3921
Registered: 9-2002
Posted From: 156.34.248.176
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 7:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good attitude:-)

I groom a CKCS that came in really matted and I tried everything to not shave it but I phoned the owner and said I just had to. The dog was too far beyond just a brush. This is a large CKCS. Anyway I shaved it and it looked like a beagle and now she gets it shaved yearly but is coming to me every 6-8 weeks in between. I know this isn't your case but I was sweating when she came to get the dog!
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candycane
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Username: candycane

Post Number: 48
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.109.199.171
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This reminds me of a Beardie who came to me quite matted one winter's day. I told the owner I would probably have to take some areas rather short, as I didn't think I would be able to dematt the throat, forechest, and a few other places. He said "do what you have to do"...

Turns out I was able to take it off with a #4 skip tooth before the bath and finish with a 1 1/2 comb after - longer than I thought I'd be able to do and I was quite proud of the nice grooming job. Owner picked up the dog and seemed pleased, too. WELL...Next day the wife comes storming in the shop, dog and husband in tow, hollering hysterically at me about how I "shaved her dog RAW"!!! My boss was so mad, she pulled a 7 strip cocker out of a crate and told the lady, "THAT isn't bald, THIS IS BALD!" LOL....We still laugh about that, but theladyq, the way you keep saying your dog was "scalped" makes me think of this incident. I hardly think your dog was shaved with a #40, so it doesn't do anyone any good being so dramatic about it!
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cordrush
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Username: cordrush

Post Number: 249
Registered: 11-2002
Posted From: 207.189.233.207
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 9:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So ladyq, you haven't told us what you had to pay for the poor haircut...
Hopefully nothing, and it'll all just grow back without further incident. But don't feel bad, I know of a "groomer" hwo clipped a fully corded Komondor with #7 blade because it all looked matted to her.
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diamondog
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Username: diamondog

Post Number: 2869
Registered: 6-2001
Posted From: 67.72.98.45
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

YIKES! Now THERE's a Mistake!
Ladyq, sorry you got such a shock. It's something we all try to avoid but the human factor kicks in now and then. Oooops!
It sounds like you take exempliary care of your Springer and this is why I'm sure you were so upset when you found her 'scalped'.
It really is the groom of choice out here in Montana for the birddogs I groom and it's a plus that it's summer and may be a comfort groom for your Springer. You could use it as an excuse to get her out to the lake or beach more often but be careful, she may learn to love the nekked look.
My hubby always told me, (the classic haircut panic attack victim) that the only difference between a good haircut and a bad one was 2 weeks.
OK, for your gal it may be a month to get the furnishings back in but tell her she's beautiful and trim her down a bit and it will be a shocking but funny story before long.
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travelin_mac
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Username: travelin_mac

Post Number: 171
Registered: 2-2003
Posted From: 24.205.218.50
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 1:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yanno, I used to raise show English Cocker Spaniels. I dutifully kept them in full coat, hand stripped the backs, the whole kit-in-ca-bootle. OH!!! How loud I voiced my objection to my clients who wanted their dogs coats shaved off. My gawd, why own a breed of one kind if you want "turn" it into another by shaving its coat off. Springer owners were particularly on the receiving end of my ire. (Springers were my first love)

Then one wonderful day, I had entered my pride and joy in a Hunting Test. The cover was great for birds, horrid for coated spaniels. Pagan came out of the field one massive matt. I watched other owners complain about the choice of cover and work on dematting their show coated dogs. I had an epiphany. I had a hunting dog now. The coat was a hindrance to his performance.

Before I went home that day, I swung by my shop and buzzed my boy down. The look of relief on his face was unmistakable. He LOVED being NEKKID!!! It was easy to see he felt GOOOOOD.

What was the point of this story? I forgot. Sorry.
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theladyq
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Username: theladyq

Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 24.74.69.14
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 5:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for all the posts. The Quince and I are getting used to her new cut, and since we live in the deep South, where July and August are brutal, things will work out (grow out) all for the best.

I paid nothing for the groom (they refunded the cost), and my dog's profile now includes directions that only a specific groomer who I love can touch her in the future. How yesterday's groomer translated my direction of "Standard Springer cut. Just clip the feathers on her legs a little shorter since it's summer" into a full shave, I will never understand. Sigh.

Cordrush: LOL at Komondor story. Too funny.

If I hunted, I would have her clipped very short during hunting season for sure. (I used to have to remove the burrs from my father's English Setter. Not fun. But that was way up North, where it can get pretty chilly during hunting season, so I'm not sure about the trade off in terms of the dog's comfort vs. the owner's ease of care.) In any case, I don't hunt, and my dog is a bench ESP - but I certainly understand clipping short for field trials.

For what it's worth, my neighbor thinks she looks "cute." I think she looks like a small, weirdly-marked deer (she's a liver & white ESP). But hair grows and at least I can now tell if she's gaining any unwanted weight.
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alyson
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Username: alyson

Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2003
Posted From: 155.143.190.165
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 6:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well I can tell you where she got messed up! The "Just clip the feathers on her legs a little shorter since its summer"!! Clip to me means using the clippers which means the feathers would be GONE.

If it was me I would have asked further questions like "now when you mean clip the feathers do you mean right off or do you want me to scissor them a little shorter but so they are still longer than the body?" and "about how long would you like the feathers left?" I find the words customers use are often different to the words groomers use and it gets very confusing. I often find what customers say they want and what they actually want are two different things.
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pasobrio
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Username: pasobrio

Post Number: 971
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 208.190.203.70
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 7:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I agree, in fact I clipped a liver and white springer all over today, except I got to leave the ears. I begged to do a field clip, but the owner insistes he is hot, they just moved here from Alaska, when I asked how long she didn't know, I told her to get her measuring fingers out and she streached them way far apart, and I said, oh, so you just want the furnishing blended into the length on the back? She said no, but her fingers were about 2" apart and that is about the length on the back, she said "I just don't want his skin to show" So I groomed him with a 5f all, which is wayyyyy shorter than 2" and she loved it! She said that was perfect. If I had gone by her first instructions he wouldn't have gotten much of a haircut and I would have felt like she didn't get much for her 40 bones. Sometimes groomers need to be part mind reader.

theladyq just because she screwed up doesn't make her a bad groomer, it makes her human. Make sure to cut her some slack and be nice to her. Too often when people get their "favorite" groomers they treat all the others as second class citizens and hurt their feelings.
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darkangel_737
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Username: darkangel_737

Post Number: 1258
Registered: 1-2003
Posted From: 24.211.223.220
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 7:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, 4 years ago I had someone tell me to do a springer clip then yelled at me about all that hair hanging down. I was in the middle of a nervous breakdown and getting no sleep from handraising my puppies, and that was the only time I used a certain 4 letter word on a little old lady.
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theladyq
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Username: theladyq

Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 24.74.69.14
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 6:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay. It's obvious that I need a lesson on groomer lingo. "Clip" versus "cut" versus "trim" and what instruments are used for each ... and anything other so-called buzz words I need to know. Please educate me ...
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travelin_mac
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Username: travelin_mac

Post Number: 173
Registered: 2-2003
Posted From: 24.205.218.50
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 8:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

theladyq, every breed that requires grooming, particularly the ones who get haircuts have a standard breed "trim" or "clip." That typically refers to the way the dog will look after grooming. Some groomers use the word "cut" for achieving the look.

The lingo is different from shop to shop, which is why I feel there needs to be some sort of standardization within the grooming field.

However, in answer to your question, "Clip" oftentimes refers to using clippers on the the dog. "Cut" will sometimes mean "take it all off" with the clippers. And "Trim" will mean take it shorter, but leave some length, typically done with scissors.

All this leads up to the fact that groomers and clients need to enter into a dialogue so both parties fully understand what the other means.
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pasobrio
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Username: pasobrio

Post Number: 976
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 208.190.203.70
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't even use the word cut, I say trim for neatening up, or clip for clipping the hair into a style.

You also have to understand we deal with a lot of customers, not all of these customers even know what a traditional breed clip is. Say for instance I have someone come in with a Springer, very often the conversation might go like this "How would you like your dog groomed?" "Oh, I don't know, I guess just clip him like a Springer." (Since not everyone knows what their breed is supposed to be groomed like I'll press harder) "So you want the back and sides clipped shorter, and leave feathering on his legs, and underside?" "Make the feathering shorter, it's summer and he gets hot." (Now if your conversation went kinda like this she might assume you want your dog stripped) I however would try again "Okay, so you want the feathering and underside longer than on the back, or the same length?" If he said longer, than I'd ask how much does he want off, "Do you want half off, a quarter of the length off, or just trimmed up a bit to make it neater." IMO anytime you say "He's hot, it's summer" The majority of the people that say that want their dog naked even if during the winter they keep them in their breed clip, sometimes during the summer they want them stripped. Trimming it up a bit shorter will not make the dog cooler so the groomer probably thought you wanted it quite a bit shorter than normal in order to make her cooler.

Most of the customers I see have no clue what they are talking about when they say "Clip like a <insert>" I don't know how many cockers, springers, ect. I've groomed that the owner asks for a breed clip, when in reality what they wanted after further investigation was an all over strip.
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theladyq
Registered Member
Username: theladyq

Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 24.74.69.14
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 6:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

travel_mac and pasobrio: Thank you so much for all of your comments, especially about the need to REALLY talk with the groomer! You are so right about making sure both the owner and the groomer understand what's what and what is expected. As I said from the beginning of this post, there was a total misunderstanding between me and the groomer in this instance.

Update on The Quince (the ESP): I'm over my initial shock. And both of us are enjoying her new look, since it gives us both a different perspective - she gets to run and romp without nasty tangles; I get to monitor her weight easily, as well as her old-age benign tumors, old-age movement, etc.

Best of all, it's a great opportunity for me to monitor her coat and how I can best ensure she's getting the nutrition she needs to grow out a soft, silky coat. (Hey - any advice on best dog foods? And/or nutrition supplements for Springers?)

Thank you all, again!
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travelin_mac
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Username: travelin_mac

Post Number: 179
Registered: 2-2003
Posted From: 66.215.133.188
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 8:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You're very welcome.

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